The Boonafide Experience

Chikai.eth

July 25, 2022 Chikai Season 3 Episode 26
The Boonafide Experience
Chikai.eth
Show Notes Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, y'all are in for a treat today!

As the previous co-creator of Google Earth, Chikai brought his wealth of technical knowledge into this space to re-imagine the concept of an art gallery in the digital age.

He has collected from some of the most established artists in the space, including Neil Burnell, Cath Simard, Kristopher Shinn, Samantha Cavet, Eric Reubens, Summer Wagner, and so many more . Not only is he an avid collector, but his major contribution to this space is via his custom built Monolith Gallery. This is not just building a website to feature art, he's literally untangling the current meta by changing how galleries get curated. Instead of a billionaire who makes a sizeable investment to the gallery, Chikai appointed the best curators on the planet, the artists. 

We discuss his idea for Monolith, entry into web3, mental models for approaching collections, and an in-depth discussion about the importance of onboarding and how he's doing it.

I highly suggest pulling up Monolith Gallery as you watch this to get a taste of what he's all about.

Enjoy <3

Boonafide Socials:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BoonaETH
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Boonafidexp
Website: https://www.boonafide.com

Links:

Monolith Gallery: https://monolith.gallery/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/lifeofc

Support the show
Kyle:

GM welcome to the Boonafide Experience Podcast. I'm host Kyle, but really most people, they just call me Boona. This is a web 3 podcast where I interview artists builders, gamers, and of course, defi wizards. The mission here is to highlight trustworthy individuals in the space, share amazing artwork and build strong community. As we rewrite the history of IP and entertainment forever. Y if you're new here and are returning and have it done. So. Go and do the thing like, and subscribe to this video or audio platform, whichever one you're on click the button, it says, follow subscribe, whichever one gets you notified. Every time I drop a new episode, plus also it helps get this podcast up to the top of the leaderboards, which as you know, as I just mentioned, this is to provide this. The whole intent of this is to provide a safe on-ramp by telling really stories, to allow people to connect to art and to find their passion within web 3. Well, I didn't really say that before, but that's what I meant. So now you get to hear that being said, , if you, for those who are subscribed and are just wanting more access in general, I do have a Patreon channel, which does give you early access to episodes about two to three days in advance, as well as gives you a custom role in my personal discord, which gives you more access to myself and other Patreons just crushing it here. in the web three and NFT space. Now let's get to this upcoming guest. One of my, one of, uh, man, one of my favorite people in this space, I, I saw what he was doing from afar, saw him in a couple spaces, especially with a lot of the people that I had, uh, had on the podcast already. Um, one of the greatest collectors the space has to offer, and that is Chikai or as he goes on Twitter, lifeofc, um, and Chikai.eth is his Ethereum, uh, domain. Chikai previously built the app, um, that a Google acquired, which now Google now brands it Google Earth. So , uh, Chikai brings a wealth of technical experience into the NFT world. Into the web three space has built one of the most beautiful websites called Monolith Gallery, which is changing the way galleries are viewed today. And from the way they've traditionally been. Give you a quick, quick example, instead of having galleries, being, having exhibits named after billionaire contributors or people who have made significant donations, he is giving artists their own exhibition halls and allowing artists to be the curators of the Monolith Gallery. And I think that's just a really cool statement because the reality is artists have the best have the best taste when it comes to curating really good collections. So I think what he is doing is really amazing. Flipping it on its head, changing a lot of narratives from the inside out. Chikai and I go over our, our onboarding into web three. We share a very similar story, even though we ha are in completely different spots in our lives. So we bond over a lot of that. We have a really important discussion on onboarding and how that's being done, how he's doing it, how I'm doing it. And some really good mental models to work through. Um, Chikai's just, uh, uh, as he's he's technical, he's got a good taste in art, um, and he's got really good ways of viewing things and I think y'all are gonna get a ton of value out of this. I know I did. Um, my perspective has changed since, so I'll put his links into description below. So that way, if you want to view the Monolith Gallery while we are, uh, talking and going through some of his story, I invite you to do so, ladies and gentlemen, let's go ahead and get started with the show. Uh, GM Chikai. How are you?

Chikai:

GM GM.

Kyle:

How are you, man?

Chikai:

Good. Good. It's a, it's great to sort of, uh, talk to through this, uh, after meeting, I guess, FTM, YC and reaching out before. I don't think I connected you when I first saw you in these. Oh, and the pocket. Oh yeah. It was cool to, to meet you in person in New York.

Kyle:

yeah, but you know, what's funny is, uh, John, so I interviewed John knob a little earlier, uh, and he, and he. W when I, when I met him at, it was at the gala know, is that Chad's gallery, you know, Chad's gallery over there. He actually didn't recognize me because he only recognized me by the dog on my profile picture on Twitter. And he actually kinda like, he actually kind of stuff. He actually kind of stonewalled me a little bit. Cause he like, he was being bombarded by people coming up to him, asking him, you know, just trying to like, get to know him a little bit more. And I remember thinking I'm like, damn, that's kinda cold man. Like, um, but after I posted a tweet that I took, when I took a picture with Cath he was like, holy shit. That was you. It's like, yeah, man, that was me. It's like, you need to wear a picture with your dog. T-shirt on. Cause like I had no idea. Um, but yeah

Chikai:

Yeah.

Kyle:

I remember

Chikai:

was almost exact opposite for,

Kyle:

go ahead. I remember seeing you and I'm

Chikai:

was.

Kyle:

all right, I'm going to let you go ahead. I'm gonna let you go ahead.

Chikai:

It seems to be a slight delay. Um, yeah, I was just, uh, when I, when I, I, for me, I had the exact opposite problem because my face is my face on my Twitter profile. So people wouldn't know exactly who I was, uh, coming up to me. It was kind of funny. Um, but go ahead.

Kyle:

And I remember thinking, like, I remember seeing the pro, like, but I, I only saw you from the side when I first, when I saw you in Ft NYC. And I'm like, I've only seen your picture from the front. I'm like, is that, is that him? I'm going to, so, um, yeah, man, it's been a pleasure to, to, it was a pleasure to connect. Um, I remember seeing, I think where I first, I don't really know where I first learned about you. I think it was on a space about photography or something that Samantha Cavett shared or something, you know, and I remember seeing you, uh, in a space and I'm like, holy shit, man, this guy helped, you know, like do all these. I'm not going to give you, I'm not going to give your intro for you. But I remember looking at your background. I'm like, wow, like who the hell is this guy, man? He's like, he collects some amazing. Um, and he seems to be really involved here. So I like that was like how I ran into you

Chikai:

Cool. Yeah. And Samantha Cavett, I met her for the first time at an NYC, so it's so awesome to see her. I had known her for like, oh, since I started almost. Um, but, uh, but yeah, it's, it is. I appreciate you noticing me, I guess. Uh, but, uh, it is, it is, uh, it's been a crazy ride, uh, through this, this NFT, uh, sort of journey.

Kyle:

man, that's a, I think that's an understatement. I think you're selling a little bit short there. Um, so for, uh, for, for those who don't know you, you know, let let's, let me have you do a brief introduction to yourself, man.

Chikai:

Sure. Um, I guess I'll almost go backwards. I'll start from what I'm doing now and they go backwards. Uh, so, uh, this past year, I guess, and I'll shutting down my company at the end of the beginning of last year, 2021, a and as shutting down, I was like, I need something fun to do. Cause shutting down a company. Just depressing and never fun. It says, oh, look into the single NFTs. Like I had no idea what it was. Uh, and I think what peaked my interest was when I saw Nyan cats sell for like a half million or whatever it was, it was like where I was like, what the hell is going on? And then of course the Beeple sell after that just like went to another level. But like, um, and so I started to look into it, research it and them at bought up an nft and bought another NFT and another that I just, uh, it was actually from it wasn't actually somebody who was really well-known. It was from a guy named Nabeel Hyatt. He actually is someone in the valley. Um, and so I bought it from him. And the reason I bought it was actually not necessarily entirely for nfts it was because I was building this, um, this, this display system, uh, this like three panel display system, four panel, extra display system. That was basically a digital version of a Japanese byobu which like those folding screens with the art on it.

Kyle:

it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chikai:

said, I need something cool to show on it. The Nabeel's piece was cool and nfts was around. So I bought that one. Uh, and then I bought other ones, but they're all fairly small at the time. Like Marishka Beckner. I think it was the second one

Kyle:

I I've actually, that was that's also where I saw you from too Mariska was one of the first, uh, artists, like, like one-on-one artists that I collected from. Yeah,

Chikai:

Cool. She's awesome. She was just like, she's such a great sort of spirit and sort of just positive, positive sort of, uh, uh, sort of just personality. And I think that initially it wasn't photography. It was, I mean, nowadays I'm more known for my photography collection, but like initially was all 3d art, uh, and more of that stuff. And I took a long time for me to get into photography. Um, but that's where it started, so.

Kyle:

Got it, man. Yeah. That's we actually have a very similar journey. Cause I, the, what drew me to Marishka is, was the, just the vibrant kind of like purple psychedelic, astronaut kind of like space vibe thing. Cause I, I collected one of her pieces on Ethereum is an edition on Maker's Place. And then I collected like, then I realized that like I could collect on Tezos for like way cheaper and I'm like, okay, cool. Let me, let me go buy like two of her pieces on Tezos. Um, but yeah, one of, one of the very first like true artists that I, that I collected from, because I think in the beginning, you know, just to share a similar story , I'm not sure what your background in crypto was before this one, mine was nothing.

Chikai:

Mine was nothing to, I had never bought crypto. I had never I've read the Satoshi's white paper, and I knew about it. I knew the technology, but I had not actually actively participated at all. So this was definitely my first time ever participating in crypto period, like anything to do with crypto.

Kyle:

So you and me have a similar on-ramp, you know, cause I would have never given, you know, I would have never given two shits about crypto, if it wasn't for NFTs. Like, I mean, I, cause you know, cause when I saw this happening I'm like, okay, cool. Like Bitcoin, like I, I, again like you, I knew what it was, but at the same time, I'm like, why, where can I spend this money? Why is it that... I didn't have enough time? Or like really quite frankly enough curiosity to like actually understand like why it was so valuable until you actually could layer culture on top of it, you know?

Chikai:

Totally. Totally. Yeah. The culture part is huge. Um, I can't remember who else I bought after that, but like, um, but it was a very interesting journey, so was sort of going backwards. So the NFTs this past year, it just blew up. Um, but before NFTs, again, like we said, I had no crypto or anything, but a lot of my career before that was, um, with Google Earth and Google maps, uh, I started a company, uh, or co-founded a company called Keyhole, uh, back in 2000. And, uh, that was acquired by Google in 2004, which became Google Earth and Google Maps. And so that was a large part of my career before that. Uh, and then before that, like I was not even doing. You know, sort of mapping. I was doing bio-medical engineering, so my undergraduate and my PhD, or in a bio-medical engineering which is more like medical imaging type stuff. And my PhD was in the 3d ultrasound of the heart. And so I went from medical imaging to mapping, uh, and then now to crypto and art, which is like, you never anticipate your career going in these directions, but just life leads you in these strange ways. You know, if you asked me in college, what I'd be when I grew up, I said, I wouldn't become a professor during research teaching at university, never even thought about going into entrepreneurship or even working at a company because I thought work at a company was, oh, you go for a company and you worked there for your entire career. You get a pension, you retire. But in the valley it was like you switched jobs every four years is so different. Now that it's just a. My conception, my, my perception of what it was was not what it actually was. And so it just been a crazy journey. And again, I would not have anticipated this turn. Like it was not a planned event. It's like we went down the rabbit hole NFTs. It's like, I fell backwards not knowing where I was going and then just sunk deep, deep into it. Uh, and so it was not on purpose. I sort of tripped the whole and fell down deep.

Kyle:

Yeah. I mean, wow. That's, I mean, there's a lot to unpack there. I didn't know you had a PhD that it's actually, um, I actually actually just had Alex Mac on a Mac on here the other day. Uh that's actually the next episode that, um, today that we're recording is actually dropping on Monday. Um, so our recordings, you know, uh, but yeah, it's super interesting. So, I mean, when you, when you went down that path of like wanting to like get your PhD, was that I'm just curious, was that a lot of motivation from your parents? Was that like a genuine curiosity? Like, what was it that made you like, want to go down that route in the beginning? Like what even got this whole thing started in the first place?

Chikai:

Um, you know, I think maybe it's part in parents, but like also that's what I always thought I would be doing. I was definitely much more of a technical sort of, um, engineering minded person, uh, and much more into that kind of stuff. And honestly, I would, I mean, I ended up doing product magic for over a decade at Google. I would never have predicted that in, uh, you know, my, the company I did was, I was a CEO of a company. I always thought I'd be a CTO, but never CEO. So my. Evolution in my career is very different. So it very much started there. And I, and I also want to be, professor seemed like it. I liked the deep thinking sort of analysis and sort of really understanding something and the scientific sort of process. And so, uh, and, and it just, what I always thought I'd be doing and that's a path I was taking. And so I always thought I'd do a PhD, but like, yeah, it just, uh, I don't know if it was a thought process necessarily, but I always good at science and math and stuff. So that's a path I thought I'd go down.

Kyle:

Makes sense. Why crypto crypto's a little bit more like why it's appealing. It's just, it's it's a, it's a lot of math.

Chikai:

Yeah. And the funny thing is, is that, you know, the same time I was doing all this math and science and, you know, I went to the international science fair when I was in high school and won the regional science fair when I was a kid. So there's a lot of that sort of success that happened during my, uh, early academic and high school years. But also like at the same time, uh, when I was a teenager, as I taught myself piano, uh, and started writing songs and stuff, uh, and did a lot of music and art stuff. And so, but it wasn't at the forefront, uh, and didn't come out till later, uh, in terms of how it's manifested now. But, uh, it's interesting to see how that all developed, uh, and the other interesting tidbit that I think that's from, from that growth period in that time, uh, is that it was. And if you look at your past, like you look at your parents, what they do when your kids like all, what are my parents? Do you don't care about it? It's like you don't even want to do what your parents do just because it's your parents. Uh, but my dad was an architect. Uh, and so there's this blend of aesthetic design of having to design a building that is, that is just has design sense yet it has to still stand up. It can't like fall down, there's an engineering component to it. So I think that blend of the two came from I'm almost subconsciously through my dad and what he did. And so it's interesting how that's manifested later on because, you know, NMT has a very strong sort of engineering component to it. Uh, but with NFTs, there's also a very strong sort of, uh, th uh, design artists, artistic stamp, uh, sort of, uh, aspect of it, which is just as important as the engineering sort of technical sort of deep sort of crypto aspect of it. So, so that journey's been very interesting

Kyle:

yeah. I can imagine. So, you know, are your, so may I ask, like, do your, do your parents still, like when you, when you meet up for dinner or meet up for gatherings, so they understand anything of what you're doing?

Chikai:

My dad actually follows me on Twitter. He even shows up in my spaces and so he keeps on it pretty closely. He'll like text me or email me when he sees this stuff's going on. But I think he's watched it. I, I don't know if he truly understands NFTs. I think he does, but I've never really quizzed him on it. Uh, but like, I think he understands it. Um, but it's, it's a, it's cool. Cause he pops up in spaces every once in a while. It's like, oh, there's my dad. in the audience.

Kyle:

That's so awesome, man. That's so awesome. Especially not only, not only is that, but just to have your dad on Twitter, that, you know, that that is a, you know, cause my, my, my mom doesn't like, you know, my parents barely, like, they use Facebook pretty religiously now, you know, but like, They can't even fathom using Twitter. Like the fact that like their friend's list, isn't curated. People could just @ you out of nowhere. Like, you know, the Twitter just does not, you know, does not resonate with them. They're just like, you know, I don't, I don't like, Facebook's fine. Cause they can do though they can curate it, they can manage it. They can do all this other stuff with it, you know, where they only see certain things, um, said, well, yeah, Twitter, Twitter is a Twitter's a wide world. But I actually, this past weekend educate, you know, my, I planted the seed with my parents a long time ago. And I think until I made my first sale, you know, in nfts my parents really didn't take any of what I was doing. Like very seriously. Like they was always, it was always really, it was like cautious optimism, right? Like they, they weren't gonna like, not support what I was doing, but they're kind of just like, all right, what you know, is this, is this really a thing? Um, and I remember planting the seed a while back and actually this weekend, my mom actually says, she's like, "okay, like what's a wallet?" And I'm like, Yes. Finally. Got her to ask the question. Um, you know, cause the, the, the challenge, I think when I would try to onboard people is I would just share all of, like, not only just the facts, but also like my imagination layered with those facts. And it would just confuse the everliving, hell to like, no one, no one knew what to do. They'd be lately more confused than when they came in. And I just said, you know, there's gotta be a different approach. Like, there's gotta be just like, you know, now she's trying to understand a wallet and now she's like, well, I'd probably buy a piece from you. One of my friends, Jacob, and probably buy a piece from someone locally up here at our, at our house. Um, and I know she's just like enamored with Samantha's work because she's a huge Monet fan. And Samantha has a lot of, you know, inspiration from Monet.

Chikai:

she's amazing. I love Samantha's work. Uh it's just, and she had that recent sale, like her all time high, the other day I was so happy for her, she she's definitely in the meeting her person. Uh, and I guess she, I didn't realize that she was, I think staying with Summer Wagner, uh, and Summer.

Kyle:

I mean, I mean, look at both, both of them, it's like the world of Twitter just discovered their work. Cause I think Summer almost had almost 50 pieces just sold out in like a week.

Chikai:

Yeah. Yeah. I, I think a lot of people have the same idea. I, I was luckily had an amazing night with her Samantha Summer Wagner, Samantha Anocondo, Grayson. Um, uh, and then, uh, Felix, we all hung out together. It was just an amazing night and really connected with them. And so I was like, oh, I, I do want to get one of Summer's pieces. For whatever reason, every other collector had exact same idea. And so I put in a bid as only one other, one in auction, and then the next morning, and there were like 10 bids going on at the same time. And then like, I got outbid like multiple times. I'm like, okay, maybe I won't win a piece, but luckily I got two but like, I wasn't sure I'd win. Uh, so it was just amazing to see that happen. And then Samantha having her all time high, like, oh, I was so happy for her. So

Kyle:

100%. And I actually had her on the show about a month ago, you know, it was actually her first. It was actually her first podcast. That's

Chikai:

no,

Kyle:

figured out about yeah, yeah man. Yeah. I found her through Joey, the photographer. I don't know. I'm not sure if you've seen his work.

Chikai:

yes I have.

Kyle:

so I had him on in December and then he's like, well, I was in a DM with him. We're on a phone call. He's like, dude, you gotta check out summer and you got to check out Samantha. Like that was actually, that actually came as a recommendation from him. Um, and so that's how I got onboarded to both of their work. And it's just like, wow. You know, um, just some of the most incredible talent I've ever seen. I think for me, I'm coping a little bit because I, you know, as I mentioned earlier, I'm still building my bag up and right now I can't really afford a Samantha piece or a Summer piece right now, but you know, the thing though, about the spaces that with creators like that is that, you know, I mean, obviously nothing's guaranteed, but like I know like in my bones that like, they're not going anywhere, you know, like they're, they're like they're here to stay. Like they just, just the way they interact, the way they do their work, the way they, I mean, now they actually have proper funding to do it even better. You know? So it's like, if this is, if this is ground zero, I mean, they just got a lot of capital injected. What's going to happen to their work in the future, you know? Um, so I think there's always this fear of like missing out on their early work. But at the same time, you know, I'll, uh, it's like, it doesn't mean that it's like gone forever. That was like my biggest fear. I'm like, shit, like I'm just sitting here watching. I'm like, I'm equally excited, but I'm like, no. What about the little guy? Um, you know, so it's been an incredible like journey to watch. And I mean, so let's, let's like switch, like let's, let's talk about some of your gallery man. Like you recently announced like Monolith gallery and I wanna like, get it from you. Like, what is that? How did that come about? Like, what was like you, I, and I heard you in some spaces, talk about how this has just been a journey to create. It's been a lot of hard work. So I wanna, I wanna, I want to hear a little bit more about this and where this all started.

Chikai:

I think that, you know, it started off as, you know, something pretty simple, uh, and it grew into something much, much bigger and the response from the community has been amazing, but the way it started was I was thinking about the gallery space and a lot of the gallery spaces were, um, basically the almost exact. That's sort of like a, I guess the often referred to as like, um, a skeuomorphic sort of a representation of what exists in the real world. So often they were just the normal white walls, the gallery space, as you see it at a museum just done within the virtual reality or the metaverse. And so my thought was like, you know, the metaverse can be anything and it can be absolutely anything. So why not re-imagine it. And in something new that wasn't just a one for one representation of what a gallery looked like in the real world. And so the premise was instead of having the room, be like a room in a house, had the room be the landscape of the earth. And so basically it's some great landscapes on the earth is the gallery. And then have art dropped down from the sky as these giant monoliths like from like a like a space movie or a scifi movie. And they've dropped down from the sky, this giant format and, uh, and just sort of float there, uh, above like, you know, the land or the, the bay or the ocean or something. And that's where it started. And so my initial idea was more, this AR type experience. Where it's , you have this sort of like you see it out there, but I thought, you know, there's probably a way to do this without having to go that far yet. Cause I think AR has, technology is not there exactly yet. Uh, at least what I had in my head. And so I said, okay, well, why don't I work with landscape photographers to give me sort of like the Earth as the gallery and then do it through a web browser to drop down these pieces. Uh, and so they would float down, they'd come in and out through the frame. And so that's where it started. Uh, and so, and so I reached out to the photographers and alot of them said, yes, I was meet Samantha Cabot said, yes, she contributed piece, which was amazing. Uh, and so it was a combination of photographers and eventually three artists who contributed pieces. But the second problem was how, what did I put in the gallery? Initially, I thought, you know, maybe I'll do it. I'll curate it myself. And like, I'll pull it from my collection or ask people to do it. And then I thought that's going to be a lot of work. Uh, and so I thought, what happens if I just made it an open curation system where anybody could submit their work and then I'd sort of display that within the galleries. And I thought, and have multiple halls. It wouldn't just be one gallery, but it'd be like 21 halls at different wings of a museum. And then those wings of the museum would be named after the artists. Like you have like a wealthy sort of billionaire at no during its way to museum, they build a whole wing of a museum for them. And they named that wing after them. Well, this was like the artists to contribute their work when, you know, and then I would create a whole wing or a hall, but, uh, The name of the artist. And so Samantha Cavet's sort of contribution was called Cavet Hall, Reuben Wu's is Wu Hall. There's a bunch of great artists there in there. Uh, and so that's where that came from from that, uh, sort of that, that evolution. And so by having the open curation system, you know, allowed me to bring in a lot more work, also diverse work that I may not have seen. And so that's been probably one of the most amazing parts of it. They may have started on this concept of the reimagine, the gallery space, but the part that's been amazing is just. The amount, just the diversity of art and artists and art forms. I've come in a lot of it's photography because that's my community, but it's also been all across the world. All kinds of different kinds of industry. Getting more diverse as time goes on to really create these sort of curate or to bring together these pieces that I just, I would not have seen. Like there's a whole bunch of artists from Nigeria. If you Ethiopia South, America all across the world. And it's just been amazing to see that, uh, and that's been, uh, the, the big part, I mean, we went was at NFT NYC, you know, most the people came up to me also commented on Monolith Gallery and how much they appreciate it and liked it. So I was really thankful, uh, for that feedback from people that, you know, the, that it was doing some good within the community.

Kyle:

Yeah. That's all. I mean, that's awesome. And, and, and I think you answered a few questions, but I want to ask a couple of months, I mean, this seems like, kind of like step one right now. Cause I, you know what you had mentioned earlier, You know, AR and VR, you know, whatever, whatever the R is that ends up dominating is not really, uh, it's not as flushed out yet. And I'm, you know, I'm a big proponent. I I'm a personal fan of AR over VR. I don't like, you know, I, I, I think that, like, I still think that Earth is a really cool place. I think we can just like enhance Earth a little bit more, you know, um, versus like, you know, do the whole Ready Player One narrative that a lot of people in this space for some reason tend to gravitate towards. I don't, I've never understood them. Like, that's not actually what I want. I mean, it's not, it's not actually what I want, um, on this gallery is it, are these all pieces that are currently on chain? Is there like ways to like navigate to the, to the sale of these? Are these are these part of just like private collections of, of the people that curated this? How does that, how does that like curation process work? How do you go about even like selecting the curators and then like have them have them take the work and put it up on there?

Chikai:

Yeah. So all the pieces are pieces that are on chain, all NFTs, all the Ethereum chain. My hope is to support other chains like Tezos to, this is a big one, cause lots of artists are there, but, um, but eventually that'll happen. Uh, but it is all NFTs and NFTs that either you've created or you own. Uh, and so it's for collectors. Like there's several collectors, like Guy NorCal did a curation for the inaugural exhibition. Uh, Lord Truffington did one recently. An exhibition three or four. And so there's collectors in there. A lot of them tend to be artists. What they created, it's a way to showcase their work. And there are some artists who are actually curating a work they've collected or their friends like, um, Cole Rise did a whole bunch from his personal collection, even though he's an artist himself, he also did a hall for the Monolith Gallery, but there's also a bunch of artists who are getting together to curate a takeover of all monoliths and to work together, to collaborate. And with these curations, you can pick from your own collection or your own ones you've created, or you can collaborate with others, uh, to say at others collaborate, they can add their pieces, whether they've created or collected. And so there is a collaborative component to it. Uh, and so it's, it's, there's always to do it is basically it's NFT. And the reason why I kept it, whether you created our own, it is just to, just to be respectful of what has been written on chain. So if people were allowed to do it with people who own it, who bought it, the collectors to show off their collection or the artists who created it. And so, uh, and then there is some ways to bend it a little bit, but I want to make sure there's permission from those owners and those creators. Uh, and the easiest way to do it is by using the wallet they signed in with a wallet and whatever that wallet has you can use, but you can do collaborations. There is a way to do it manually because sometimes you need to do it for special cases, but those are flagged as manual and I'll review them much more carefully, to make sure there's permission from them. And it's not like there's any legal or any particular reason to it, but it's out of respect, uh, and sort of just courtesy to those artists and collectors.

Kyle:

I like that. And I, that was you, you answered another question, is that like, as if the, if the process was manual or if it was like a wallet connect thing where you could, you could literally just pull pieces from, uh, pull pieces from that that's that's really cool. I mean, I, you haven't, you have a pretty impressive, like the, the site's impressive the way, the way, the, the way the art comes down to kind of like bounces a little bit before you scroll it. Like, I, I enjoy that. Um, you know, when it comes to like V2, what does V2 of this look like? 'cause I,

Chikai:

Um,

Kyle:

it. I want to pick your man. I want to get in your imagination, man. Like I that's, because I know with, with your, like, with, with who you are, from what I know of you and what, and what this is like, this is, this is almost very like, this is very early days for you.

Chikai:

yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, this was actually there's three stages to this, this first part. Uh, and then, so the first two phases were. The Monolith gallery site itself, uh, which was launched. The second part was actually having my Super Rare space. So it was competing in Super Rare space, race 2 and I, I did actually just basically space race 1 and I lost, I tried again and won the space race 2 and it's very happy how it it's going very well. Uh, and so that's part two, which is to have the Super Rare space where I could sell work. And that's sort of my way to sort of pick out the ones I really want to lift up from either the general community or from the ones that have, uh, put curations within Monolith gallery and lift them up in that Super Rare space to sell that. Cause Super Rare is like, I think one of the top uh, brands for sure for innovative platforms, that is the one that artist are just coveted it to get into, uh, most coveted to get into. And so I wanted to use that, uh, brand and platform to help lift up artists with that and stage three a is coming. Uh, I haven't announced it yet, so I won't say anything yet, but, uh, maybe we could do a podcast about it when I, uh, when I get closer to it. Uh, but, uh, but that's sort of like the initial concept and a lot of it's just broadening what Monolith Gallery does, but in terms of V2 of the site, I mean, there is an AR component, but, um, you know, I think it's almost, it's going to be this blend of what I have in my head. But also listening to the community and seeing what resonates and what works, uh, in some ways, you know, I don't want to change the format because there's something nice about like most galleries or even just say, Instagram or Twitter, you scroll through and you find the one you like, they look at it. There's a lot of like, like looking through a grid of icons, then you, even on Foundation, you pick the one you want. But when you walk through a gallery, there's a physical time to walk from piece to piece and you're enjoying each piece one by one. And so I liked the fact that when you come to them, you have to go through all of them. You don't look their grid you almost like virtually walking through a, and then you have these pieces that you have to focus on each at a time.

Kyle:

Got it. You know, uh, talk about real life scenarios. Can you hear the dog? Yeah. You know, she she's, she's crate trained. She, she can actually sense the truck outside, like and her crates, not even near the window. Um,

Chikai:

What's your dog's name?

Kyle:

her name is Princess Leia.

Chikai:

No way. No. way so what did you call her Princess Leia or do you call her Leia or

Kyle:

Um, I mean, so her dog tag technically says Princess Leia, like it, like, I, I, it, people are "like, are you serious?" I'm like, "I'm dead serious." Right? "Like dead serious." Um, now, uh, day-to-day though, you know, um, you know, Leia is typically what I call her or, you know, a little girl or goober or, you know, all the things that the, all the, all the, all the names that come to you as a parent, you know, um, that you didn't plan on having that. You just call them by, by, by nature. Um, Funny side story, man. That's actually how that's actually part of my branding here. You know, when it comes to Boona and Boonafide that's, uh, my mom actually called me Boona is, has no there's no like rhyme or reason of why she called me that it was just something as a mom that came to her. And, uh, I was always so embarrassed as a kid when she would call me that. Cause I was like, you know, like it, you know, it, uh, my face would turn bright red. I was always super embarrassed that I'm like, don't call me that. And so when I was thinking of like my branding, when this whole thing started was like, okay, you know, like bonafide, you know, means genuine and authentic. And so I said, why not? When I'm creating content, you know, I started creating a web two. We chatted a little bit earlier is that a lot of the content is very disingenuous. The overwhelming majority of it is in web two you know, it's, it's just, and so I said, you know what, let me try to be, well, let me try to be an authentic voice in this space. And so like, why not become the person who like, was always like, I was always embarrassed to be, you know, Being my authentic self, adding an extra. "O." And embracing like what I used to like run from, you know, so a little, little, little bit, a little bit of a side story there, but you know, we, we call our, we call our kids certain names.

Chikai:

And maybe think about like the Obi-Wan series. We have the little girl who's Princess Leia. Uh, so you must be some, uh, good vibes for you watching that show.

Kyle:

loved it, dude. I loved the, the, the actress, um, that they chose for Princess Leia. She was an absolute firecracker. I, that was cute as a button, man.

Chikai:

Yup. Yup.

Kyle:

exactly what you'd expect. Did you finish, did you finish the series?

Chikai:

I have not. I am one episode away, I think. So do not tell me anything.

Kyle:

I won't, I won't. Yeah. There's only six. I want, I won't tell you anything. All I'll say is you're going to like it. I, at least I did. So, you know, if it's any consolation but.

Chikai:

cool. I hopefully will watch it this weekend, so,

Kyle:

Yeah, man. I'm the one that I'm currently on right now. That was, uh, that was, that was, you know, I, of course I binged that as much, you know, finished it as quick as I could. Um, but I'm also right now on the Andy Warhol diaries on Netflix. Um, yeah. Yeah.

Chikai:

it's on Netflix. Okay. I have to watch that. I definitely have to watch that.

Kyle:

Very, very well done. I'm only on episode three. Um, you know, and with, with the nature of his art and his lifestyle, it was like, it was interesting, like being on a plane, like, and they were there, like they show quite a bit, you know, so I'm sitting there like watching this on my phone, on a plane. I'm like people, people may have questions about what I'm watching here. Um, but very raw. I'm not, you know, I don't typically know. So just to a little bit more about my story, man. Like I didn't even realize I wanted to collect art until I could collect it digitally. If that makes sense. I, I never. I never like understood, you know, I never understood it and maybe it was just a blend of age and a blend of like personal interests or, you know, whatever the case may be. But, um, this is like my first take on like art in general, like just art history, art theory, you know, all these other things. And so like watching Andy Warhol, that is a very, very radical style and very different from what you know, like when I, when I went to the MoMA, I went through like the 18 hundreds to early 19 hundreds. And it's just like, I went from that to Warhol. I'm like, holy shit... big difference

Chikai:

I mean, I have a similar, like, I was not an art history major or have any art background or even collected art in any significant way before nft's. So initially it was a bit daunting and there, there, definitely even now, like as I, as I do curation, like, like there is a bit of an imposter syndrome.

Kyle:

Right.

Chikai:

How, who am I to judge what the curator what's good or not, or whatever. I mean, and then I talked to more artists to people. Like, I think I'm getting more confidence that, you know, it's all new. So it's, it's, it's a it's I feel better about it, but like still, I still have imposter syndrome. Like, what am I doing here? Like, and, and like, I'm not a art, like expert, what am I doing here? And so, so I spent a lot of time learning. A lot of the artists are quite different. A lot of people in the community I've reached out to sort of spend time with them, to learn about their craft and learn about stuff. And I think is very much, you know, which I enjoy, which is the learning and being a student of the craft and the art, the truly appreciated. And hopefully over time, my sophistication will grow. Uh, and, and I will be able to appreciate to more and more depth, which I have, especially with photography. Um, and I think that. Hopefully others will join that journey because initially it's like, you know, you see these pieces and they're just crazy, or they're just are just amazing, whatever, whatever they are. But then you start digging deeper in all these layers and how they do it and what they've done and how it relates to what's been done before. I think that creates this much deeper sort of understanding and knowledge of it that I think will only increase the value of the stuff. Uh, all the NFTs are out there. At least the good ones.

Kyle:

Yeah. A hundred percent and I'll, and I it's, it's funny it's, I mean, it's, it's interesting you say that. Cause I feel, you know, that that was part of the big battle of like doing what I'm doing right now. Is it like, who am I to like talk about anything even crypto related? Like I barely know how to, you know, like I know enough to like use the blockchain. I know enough to like have conversations with people. I know, you know, and, but in the beginning it was very much like I typically would not have much of a voice in what I was doing, you know, just because I was mainly just asking questions and kind of just like figuring out if I could actually hold a conversation with everyone that I had. Um, so, but I, what I think just to, to your point though, what's really interesting about. Just the internet in general, you can even scratch out web three, is that, you know, traditionally with, you know, with traditional ways of like making it to the top or making it to these like established, uh, you're making it like to these like statuses, if you will have always been gatekeept by like years and years of like, Hey, you have to have this credential or you had to like go to school and finish this. So you had to like go through all these years of training to get to that point. But now it's, you know, if you have a genuine intent to learn who's to say that you can't be one of the best curators in the space, you know? If you, if you lean on more of these people to like, do this, if who's to say that you can't? And I that's the beauty. I think that's the beautiful part, in my opinion, is that people who come in here with an authentic motive or like a genuine curiosity to learn and put people up and like, understand more about the craft, who cares, like what credentials, you know, like who cares if you're an actual curator? Like, what does that even mean? You know?

Chikai:

Yeah, I think there is a component that, that is such a green field. It's such a new space that there's opportunity for everybody, whether they're new or old or experienced or not. And I think that there is this interesting dynamic where you have people who are. Maybe art wise or career wise have not had that much, but they've had it in like they've been in like NFTs for like a year or even year and a half. And because of that, because we move so fast they're experts. Uh, and so, and they're legends in their own, right. Uh, and just within the space, uh, being brand new to art, brand new to the even medium and so forth. But then there are others who are legends in their own, right. Pre NFTs in the art history world, photography, and everything else. And they are coming into this brand new to NFTs. And so each has its own experience and sort of legendary status from different elements. Yet. Each also are completely brand new, um, in different ways. And the fact that everybody holds these two very contrasting, almost like. Diametrically opposed, uh, sort of state at the same time. Uh, and it makes sense and it feels right because you're both new and old at exactly the same time. It was all this Schrödinger's cat, I think, where you're both a dead cat and a live cat the same time, but you don't know until you open the box. Uh, and so there is this dual state that everybody holds that I think is really allows people to come in. And this there's a dual state also in terms of sort of being deeply technical and deeply artistic and doing the art because you have to somewhat hold both because you gotta understand a little bit about crypto and what to does is you just couldn't be completely like, I don't want to deal with technology, so I don't have to. And so it's really fascinating. And I think that creates a lot of opportunity for people to break new ground and to be part of something like this, uh, at almost equal footing coming in because it's, it's just beginning.

Kyle:

Yeah. I didn't even think about it like that. It's a very, and I, as you were saying that I'm thinking about all of the people I've met and is, does that experience line up, or work? And I find where can I find that experience in what you were just saying. And it brings me back to the very first, one of the very first, but it was the second interview I had with J1mmy.eth. And I remember thinking I'm like, why did you choose? Like, you know, I'm a nobody, right? Like I was like, I came in like, I'm like, I'm a nobody. Like, why did you, you know, why did you have me on, or why did you agree to come on? And he was like, "it's really simple," you know? And I'll like, "he's like, you like NFTs. So do I. And so that we can talk about them." And that was, that was as simple as that, but he's super deeply technical. And I don't really think I understood where my skillset lied, even though I was already presenting it. But it was, I think he saw something that I didn't and so again, it's, you know, an expert in one field or a, a honed skill in their own, right. Combined with another skill, but this whole space is green, but everything mixes together. I think there's, there's this, there's this really interesting mix of, you know, web two and web, I guess, if you want to call it, like for all intensive purposes web two to me, it felt very siloed. It felt very like, you know, it's either this or that, or you had to choose and make a decision and had to sacrifice all these things where just even with my background in video games, it's not video games or web three. It's like, no, no, no. It's video games and web three it's art and web three it's technically it's engineering and web 3 it's it's it's communication. And this business there's, there's every there's room for literally quite every skillset. Um, that's imaginable here. I don't think we've even co uncovered any of the new skillsets that, I mean, community manager has taken on a whole new, uh, has taken on a whole new definition, you know, w when

Chikai:

Yeah, I think community is, is you think community has been around for a while, but I think web three communities different in terms of. The depth of it. It's almost like when social media came along, it's like, oh, it's just like your address, but it's just like, your, your email is just or messaging. It's no different from your address, but, but no, it is different. Uh, and so I think the same thing about community, everybody had idea of community before, but the definition of community and the importance of community is completely flipped and web three. It is the primary thing you build first almost before you build a product. Uh, and so I think that is something that's really, really different, um, that I think it's hard to get when you first come in, because you think, oh, just community is this thing. And it's like the last thing often companies look at the, you know, look at a market and say, okay, there's opportunity here. They build a product they take it to market and they sell the product and after it's sold and the user has it, then you build community to people who bought the product. And so. web three is the exact reverse. You start with the community, then you build the product and almost like you must sell it actually, before you have the product, it's always a Kickstarter in some regards, and then you build the community and then eventually it comes out and there's opportunity there. But it's a, it's an almost reverse, uh, sort of, uh, sort of model. But I think it's incredibly hard for most, in web two sort of legacy companies to sort of understand. Uh, but I think that's something that, um, I think will evolve also, but also they'll learn over time, but I'm curious to, if they'll ever truly make the leap

Kyle:

Yeah. I mean, cause we saw people that tried, we saw brands that tried, you saw like a Budweiser and Pepsi and you know, like that we, we remember that tragedy when it happened. I mean that whole thread, um, it just, they, they just clear exactly what you said though. They came in, they saw an opportunity and they tried to, like, they tried to, they tried to talk the lingo without actually like participating, you know, they just tried to like, threw out a GM, they threw out a WAGMI, they threw out a fren, they threw out, uh, they, they it's like, they knew all the right things to say. But the interesting part about that is that this, you know, the community, like the community has actually built the space for the brands to come play versus the exact opposite where the brands build the landscape and we got to try to claw and fight our way into that ecosystem. You know? So I think it's very interesting. And one question I had is that, you know, with, with your years of experience, do you, do you like consult with other brands? Do you like have like a bridge where you try to like talk to them to onboard them and figure out anything, uh, like integrate this whole web three into their business model. Do you do any of that?

Chikai:

Um, well, well, I just recently got hired by Niantic to, to lead their sort of web three efforts. So I'm helping them do that very, very deep productive, but I have talked to lots of different, um, sort of people, because you said before, like you mentioned that J1mmy.eth, he like to be able to talk NFTs? Like I don't like definitely six months ago. Like I know nobody in my friend circle or even in my physical vicinity that could talk it, it was such a foreign language and foreign concepts that you just couldn't talk to anybody about it. Cause nobody really talked about it. You'd go on Twitter and there's people all across the world to talk about it. But within, even within the tech community that this Silicon valley community, like there weren't that many that had gone as deep as I had from the community side. A lot of them looked at investments and that side, but like from truly deep digging deep into it and just going as heavy as I did. I did not know an almost anybody. And so there are lot of people curious would ask me and I became the one guy that actually knew about NFTs within that circle. So they say, oh, can you talk to my friend NFTs? So I did some talks to some CEOs of some very famous, you know, companies as well as, um, also VC firms and giving them perspectives of what's going on. And so I would do that, but I also do it in a way that was very balanced. I didn't necessarily say here's all the great stuff and why it's okay in the future by saying here's all the good stuff. Here's all the bad stuff. Uh, they're, they're both happening. And even with the bad stuff, here's why I still believe is going to still work out. Uh, but I try to give a balanced view because. Uh, often, you know, people gloss over that because there's concerns in so many different directions for environmental, to scams, whatever. But if you parse through it, it is, there is still, uh, an incredible sort of opportunity underneath all of that, but it is there and it does happen. And it's something that 's serious, so it's problems that we need to solve as a community, but I try to do a balanced view. And so, you know, I mean, I have only because I'm the only guy that most people know of the actually went deep in NFTs. So there's oh, just talk to Chikai.

Kyle:

Yeah. That's why I asked. Cause I'm thinking, I figured that like with your, with your experience and your background, like with how deep you are in this, like, you're, you're one of the unicorns, you know, that, that has, that has a wealth of, you know, previous experience of talking, you know, rubbing shoulders, some of these people and getting in these circles, but also being so deep into this, like at the core level. Um, that was exactly, that's exactly why I asked.

Chikai:

Yeah.

Kyle:

you get pulled in all different directions,

Chikai:

It is. I mean, I don't go out there and preach it as, I mean, I'm not there to convince anybody, but I'm definitely in here to answer any questions, uh, especially with those are curious. Uh, and it has been an interesting sort of, uh, just crossover, because I don't think it's as tech oriented as Silicon valley is, I just don't think that they have really grasped or understood NFT's and definitely a web three. There are some who are distinctly like they do not like it. They think it's the worst thing ever. Uh, and so you have a very strong view of both sides, which I think is a good sign because anything controversial. Anything revolutionary tends to be controversial at the beginning. So it's not as a bad thing. It's just the nature of that, of new ideas coming to life. Um, so you have to be careful because there's a lot of strong opinions, very, very strong opinions in both directions. So, uh, but it is something where people are curious enough and when they are curious, they tend to point to me because I honestly, I'm one of the very few people that have gone deep into it. So,

Kyle:

Right. I mean, so, and I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit here, uh, is out of all the people that you've chatted with, what's like the biggest, if you had to like, say like one or two problems where like the biggest reason for them to not get involved, know, like what's the biggest problem that the people that you talk with, see, like, what is it that they're like.. "Yeah, I would join, but..."

Chikai:

Yeah. Um, what's a good question about that? I mean, I think. So I'll put this in more of a, sort of a broader philosophical term. And this is sort of how I view web three little bit. So any, the one thing that happened early on is like, people ask me like, you know, about web three strategy. Like, "How do I, you know, sort of think about this and what your opinions about it?" Um, and the first question I have when, when I was first asked about that is what is web three? Like, how do you define it? And I think that there's so many definitions out there. And if you searched the web, what it is, you won't find an answer because everybody has a different opinion. So I said to myself, like, "how do I define it?" Like, what do I think about three is? And so the way I defined it, uh, was you know blockchain was a technology shift. Uh, it was a technology sort of evolution in terms of, you know, this public immutable sort of decentralized database, but web three for me, Was a cultural shift. It was a shift in values that said that they value people, value digital property, as much as they valued physical property. And before like, anything digital was worth nothing and didn't really value it. And there's no way to have ownership of it, but with, you know, nft's and blockchain, now there is, but digital ownership has value. And so that is the big shift. And so that is a fundamental thing that often is what stops people from coming in is they ask the questions, like, why is it JPEG worth anything? It's just like, it's, it's, it's there's they don't see, they don't value digital property. Uh, cause they don't understand what it is and they don't think, of digital things, being able to be property and so that is often the, the thing that is that stalls people, because until you buy that premise, that digital property is as valuable. So your JPEG is worth as much to you as your car or whatever it, physical item here, the physical painting on your wall, or even your, your TV or whatever. There's physical items that you know say, oh, does this TV have value? Of course it does. I mean, it makes sense to them, but does this JPEG or this movie value or this, you know, whatever it is have value? Like, ah, they don't, it's not there. And so I think that's often if that, if they don't get that. That core premise, then everything else doesn't make sense. Uh, so you have to that's, that's the core thing where I think that is hard for most. Once you get past that, then there are other stuff that maybe they come up in terms of like, you know, crypto being scams and the environmental concerns and all this kind of stuff that they read in the news. Uh, and so I think a lot of it's fed by the media sort of giving a narrative. And I think that for me, that is about going back and saying, what do I believe? And what do I see? It doesn't make sense. And why is it, uh, people say it's scams? Why is it that people say it's environmentally sort of, uh, you know, not a good and dig into why, uh, and that it does take a bit more deeper thinking, um, because, uh, it is complex. It's not simple. And it's also changing. It's also evolving at a, such a rapid rate.

Kyle:

I like that. Yeah. I mean, that makes a lot of sense. I think that's why it makes sense to someone like me because I, you know, uh, grew up playing video games and the idea of like, you know, I bought skins and Warzone and bought skins and, you know, Halo and Gears of War and all these other things where I like it. And so that to me makes sense. You know, I said, this is the boat that was actually, you know, after the Beeple sale, that was like the most obvious, like, that was like the light, like the Beeple sale got me, like curious, but like that, when I had that thought, that was like the, the shift for me as like. Man, I get to own my Valorant skins. Like that's dope. You know, I've spent like $500, $600 on these skins and I don't actually own them. You know, like "Why?" I remember asking myself, "Why don't I, why, why don't I actually own them?" And that, that actually makes a lot of sense. I mean, I still think we have a, have a long way to go, but that's to, to, to, I guess, you know, run a parallel to your point or, you know, layer on top of that, is that, I mean, that's what I, that's the argument that I try or not the argument that's, that's the premise. I try to give an example of something digitally that they, they, they think is valuable. And like, I try to, I try to shape the conversation and ask questions versus just telling them, you know, uh, cause when you tell someone something they're naturally going to have defenses up and walls up and like, you know, but I like that. I liked that point. So it tells me even in the Silicon, Silicon Valley world, we still have a long way to go.

Chikai:

Yeah, it is weird to say that, but it is because I don't. There are lots of things we have to build to make this a great place for the masses to come in from a pure security standpoint and safety standpoint. Uh, and even just the value standpoint, understanding that value. I think that, you know, I think there are ways to understand value of a JPEG. Like, you know, the one I hear often, which I think is a good one, but it's, but you have to make the leap to digital property because that's the key. Uh, but the why you would value something digital is like, if you have a photo of your kids on your phone and that all got wiped and was gone

Kyle:

Hmm.

Chikai:

Would you care? And I think you would care because those are photos of your kids and maybe it's the only copy you ever had. So I think that there is value that can be held in something which is in a digital sort of quote unquote virtual form. Uh, but you have to make from that was those values to make that leap to digital properties. Can you consider this property because property has the, um, sort of element of ownership. Uh, and so with property you can own it, which also means that it can't be necessarily taken away from you. Like if you bought like a Millennium Falcon. Uh, toy like the, from, from Hasbro, whatever it is. And you have at home, it would say Star Wars went bankrupt and it just completely died and went away the fact that you own that Millennium Falcon doesn't change. You still own it physically at your house. You own that. And you can probably sell it on eBay you wanted too, it's yours. It does not depend on the existence of the company, whereas like Fortnite. And if you bought something on Fortnite, if Fortnite went away and shut down all the servers, you would've lost all that property. It's just not, it was never really yours. But in the case of NFTs, if like Foundation went bankrupt or went away or Super Rare went away, you would still own the NFT. And there was a real example of that with Tezos where the guy who ran Hic et nunc decided one day, I don't want to do this anymore. And shut down the site in that scenario, everybody still owns their NFTs. The NFT still existed. It never went away. Uh, Objkt picked it up and kept on going. So there is a real life example in the space where that happened and you still owned it. And so that element of property ownership, not being dependent on someone else, it can't be just taken away because some company went bankrupt, I think is key. And so you have to make that leap to believe the digital property component, not just digital value. So I think there's a two components that are different, but both important.

Kyle:

They are. And, and I, you know, it was funny as, as much as I collected on Tezos. I didn't even put that two and two together like that. I said, you know, Hic et nunc got shut down, but then I, yeah, Objkt picked it right back up. I didn't even, like, I guess I got more involved in the story, um, of the drama of, of that shutting down. I'm like, hold on. You just like, that's actually a really valuable use case as a bullish use case of it right there is that, you know, those NFTs were still intact and I could still put those in the gallery. Could still view them. I could still do all this stuff, even though the site, the centralized site, if you will,

Chikai:

Yeah.

Kyle:

went down

Chikai:

Yeah. You still owned it. You still own the NFTs you bought on Hic et nunc and it, and you, and it's until the chain itself dies, which is not a zero probability, but it's a, some probability of it. Uh, I think that that's where the question becomes, like which, where do you want your quote-unquote property to exist? Which chain then you want the chains that are most likely not to die and disappear one day. Cause there are many chains from like few years ago were extremely popular, but they no longer exist. So it is possible for a chain to completely shut down as we saw with Tera and all that and all that kind of stuff. So it is possible. So that is something that, you know, that we ought to sort of figure it out in the years to come.

Kyle:

Yeah,

Chikai:

Uh, I think for these chains, especially ethereum I don't think ethereum is going away. I mean, all crypto has to die overall to go away, but it seems unlikely. It will completely disappear out of existence.

Kyle:

that's right. Yeah. I mean, you actually gave me some another talk track. Uh, cause you know that that's also like where it's, it's where they're stored in that. It's what likelihood is this? You know, what likelihood is this chain going to stay versus go away? Where do you want your, where do you want your assets to show? And I think the, the, if you want the, the deeper part for the people in the crypto world is that. What are the, what are the trade-offs for each chain? You know, there's all these different types of conversations of like, you know, what ballot like with Solana you trade off a little bit of centralization for, you know, like there's all these different trade-offs that you have on these chains. Um, but I think, and I'll, I'll want to switch gears after this, but the one thing that came up with my mother when I was chatting with her is the idea of being the custody of your own bank.

Chikai:

Yeah.

Kyle:

that, that, and like, once you get over the digital property, like, you know, valuing digital items as property, which have ownership, then it's like, okay, now you're your own bank, which comes with all of the risk that banks take on for you. You know? Cause there's still value in a bank. You know, not that banks are completely useless. They are taking on all of the security risk of keeping your assets safe. Um, this inner now, while the benefits of like, you know, this space are your, your own. also your own bank. There's also some negative side effects. Like what if you user you lose your seed phrases like getting, getting, I think that, to me, at least with my generation has been the biggest gap because people don't want to think about that. People don't like the idea of thinking about that. And that's, to me in my, at least in my circle, the hardest hurdle to cross,

Chikai:

Yeah, I think that that is true. It does come responsibility. And that's the component of like, once you had digital property, how do you. How do you identify who owns it and where it's stored? And that's to your wallet. Uh, but I do think that as things evolve, there'll, there'll be more custodial wallets that'll happen. So you don't necessarily manage you're own keys. And like, I remember someone talking about like, they just set up their mom to have a wallet and it's all set up and, you know, she had written on her seed phrase to make sure that you had it. And there was a stack of papers that she actually. all shredded, so,

Kyle:

man.

Chikai:

so that does happen. So I do think that there'll be a certain set and probably the majority of people on the population who will want their, their keys to be, uh, in custody of someone else that don't lose it. Um, but, but you have the choice. You can have it self custody or not. And it's that, that, that you take responsibility if you do that. And I think that people need to be aware and educated, which was an education component, but I do think there'll be options in the future for both. Uh, and there'll be a blend. There'll be a spectrum of how people want to do it, given how comfortable they feel with it. Uh, um, you know, that will, that will be something that will evolve over time. And I do think it's a key component, but it's also, that's one of the security, uh, components comes in. We have to make this a better, safer experience for people. Otherwise there'll be just you know just prime for the picking or ripe for the picking for just all these people who were trying to scam and steal people's money. And it just, it happens to the best of us. I mean, I've bought stuff that's fake. I, you know, people have been hacked. I mean, luckily I haven't knock on wood, uh, but like, um, you know, it, it does happen to, in the best of us, so

Kyle:

Yep. It happened to me. I mean, in the very beginning I gave up, like, I, you know, I, I got socially engineered in like willingly gave up my seed phrase to a malicious website. You know, I was, I was trying to get support, uh, cause my, my ledger wasn't connecting to collab.land on the right way. And I, I was some naieveness around Telegram and I just didn't know how Telegram worked. And so I put in a support ticket and they said, we won't DM you first. So I put in a request and someone DM'd me. So I said, oh cool. That's support. You know? So like I just not, there was no. There w there was no thought, you know, and so they, they played it the right way. They played it smart, you know? And that's that, that's, that's the thing. I think I I'll never stop sharing that cause it's, that was one of the biggest L's that I ever took. Um, it was right after I flipped to World of Women's, um, you know, and made like a decent amount of eth and, you know, it's about 60% of that got drained. you know, so I'll never stop sharing that cause it's like, it was how I cut my teeth in is where I is, where I kind of like started to slow down and like build a little bit more, you know, build a little bit more awareness around what I was doing and what these people were asking and like, ask questions, don't rush into it, you know, what am I signing? Um, but you know, you typically, hopefully you'll, hopefully I'll only have to learn that lesson once. Cause that really hurt. Um, it was violating, it was, it was demoralizing. It was like embarrassing. Um, you know, so it it's, it's one of those things where like, I tell people, it's like, you're going to have to cut your teeth one way or another. Um, whether it's buying a fake NFT or like doing the, you know, just there's all these learning experiences that help bring you know, that help you learn how to continue forward. Um,

Chikai:

I think it's also being an early pioneer into the space. Like that's going to happen. I think when the masses come in, I'm hope it'd be much safer and there are much more guardrails that help people so that before you do it, there's some checks that happen, but that needs to be built. I mean, that needs to be, uh, sort of figured out, uh, I think that. You know, I do think it will be, I think right now we're even trying to figure out the value of what it is. And so there's a lot of evolution of what is an NFT? What is the value in web three? So as that gets a bit more solidified, I think, you know, hopefully in parallel, the guard rails will start be building, building up. And so, but I think it's going to be interesting. I it's, it is part of the nature. That's why I think it's tougher for people to jump into it because it's so easy to get scammed because you are your own bank. And so if you give up that same phrase, you're screwed, there, there is no recourse. Uh, and so it's, it's unfortunate. It just like the people who store their seed phrases, on a hard drive and threw away the computer. And now they've lost like probably tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars in Bitcoin because they just didn't save their keys.

Kyle:

right. Yeah. Yeah. It's uh, yeah. That's, that's what I I'll like, you know, before we wrap things up, that's like the that's the conversation I tell people is that, look, if you're not like the being early is like a blend of curiosity and a little bit of a re like how high is your risk tolerance? You know, like, like how much, you know, like you got to have somewhat of an appetite for risk, you know, in order to like be an early mover in something and. Things are clunky things might break things or, you know, um, it's, it, things can happen that shouldn't happen in a, in a well polished, you know, product. Um, that's typically where I have to, if you're not that person, then you don't need to be early. And it's, there's no reason why you should like, feel left out. If you're not an early mover in something you're not an early mover. Um, and that's

Chikai:

think it's totally fine. Uh, and also like, I think in this space, it is something where I think web two, you can play around with sites and whatever, and not have to put any money in and learn about it. But I think a web three, you have to spend money to learn and play and be willing to lose all of it either because you bought an NFT, that's going to eventually worth nothing. Or maybe you got scammed or you signed the wrong thing or whatever about a fake NFT like you have to, or just playing around with it and just don't even know, or this chain dies. You just end up using the wrong chain. I think you have to pay a little bit, spend a little money to learn, and there's no way around that because it's inherently currencies. You have to buy a little bit of eth or sol or Tezos or whatever it is to start playing around with it. So you have that's part of, and it's almost like, it's like tax, but it's like the the cost of, of paying to learn. You're paying your tuition to learn a little bit, um, and hopefully not too much, but you do have to put a little bit in.

Kyle:

It's kind of like a rite of passage, you know, it's, uh, I, I, yeah, I spent, I spent about three or four months before I even made my first purchase. And I remember, you know, after I read all the white papers and my brain was just absolutely fried, know, like I was trying to learn as much as I could without making a transaction, you know? Cause it's a big jump, you know, like even still, when I deposit, when I convert USD to ethereum, it's actually painful when it, like, I don't like the action of doing that. I'd rather make money ethereum like, I don't like it, man. Um, you know, but I, I researched to the point where my eyes were bleeding and I just said, okay, I've read all I can read. Like there's not anything more I can actually learn to get to the next level before, you know, you know, and then you make the journey of being a right click saver to a left click owner. Right. You know, that's the, that's the next step in doing so.

Chikai:

I've never heard of that phrase. Right-click saver to left click owner. I've never heard of that. That's awesome. I love it.

Kyle:

that's why you got to convert people to be, cause there is a, in a, you know, at least in my experience, like when you sign that transaction to actually own it, like, there is a different feeling of like buying something and signing a transaction versus just right click and saving on your computer. It's a whole different feeling,

Chikai:

No, I agree. I totally agree. And that only did not only comes from the actual purchase, but what happens afterwards when the artist finds out that their piece sold, they are just so happy and tweeting about it and they try to find you to say, thank you. And then the community with the announcement comes around and support that person and they welcome you in and they, they wanna hang out with you. And so. I think the social part. I mean, I think I've said this a lot long ago, but like it's weird how a cryptocurrency like Ethereum and through something that's very cold and almost like very transactional through like buying something that transaction very transactional has formed this incredible social network, which is incredibly warm and welcoming that transaction of saying, I believe you, the artist, have created something of worth and here is real money. I mean, effectively the real money to buy that piece of art. There's something about that act, which makes, uh, it's no other way to say it. No more of a concrete way to say your art has value, uh, in, uh, in, especially in a situation earlier on when it's all more crypto 3d art. Like Beeple saying he never, ever sold a piece of his art and he sold, like he did sort of contract work or design work or whatever, but he'd never sold any digital art until an NFTs is the first time anybody even wanted to buy his art. And so it's, it is kind of this crazy idea. You went from something that people thought was worthless, digital art to something that's worth millions. It's just an insane transition. Uh, that was just the other aspect that people see. All that was interesting is that it took something that was basically worth nothing just months or maybe six months before. And it turned into something worth millions, which is just insane.

Kyle:

it really is man. And I remember it wasn't the Beeple sale itself that got me curious. It was the, I'm not sure if you follow a Sriram uh, from, uh, a16z, he ran, he runs the Good Time Show on Clubhouse. Um, or he ran it, it was on

Chikai:

Yes. Yes.

Kyle:

yeah, yeah. So he actually hosted, you know, Metakoven and Twobadour, you know, and, and he had 3LAU and he had all these other people and all these, and I had no idea who the rest of these people were in. And now that I look back, I'm like, holy shit. These were like a bunch of somebodies, you know? And I just, I remember joining this room cause I was super curious. I'm like, okay, this is a

Chikai:

I listened that room too. I definitely seen that room.

Kyle:

You know exactly what I'm talking about. Um, that when Metakoven was talking about the whole idea of this digital world and self sovereignty and owning of assets and like building all these things for artists, and I just remember not being able to comprehend it, but I remember the way it felt. And I said like, I can't, I can't speak like what I actually am feeling, but all I know is that this is right. That's all. That's, that's all. That's all I knew. This feels like the moment when Steve Jobs pulled the iPhone out of his pocket, you know, and, and, and it changed the world. It was the same feeling, you know? Um, I remember that feeling vividly. I remember that whole keynote. I remember I almost had to memorize at one point, you know, and it was, uh, that I think that, but I think the difference between now and then was that then, you know, I didn't, I was still young and didn't really know what that feeling meant or like the skills to like, actually take advantage of that. Or I just knew it was going to be revolutionary and it, and it was, and it turned out to be. This, this time, 15 years later, you know, I have a skill set and I have curiosity and I have a little bit of, you know, know how, you know, a little bit, a little bit understanding of the world to try to make my way in it, you know? Um, so I think that was almost like a cause I felt like I really missed out in web2, I felt like I was like, surely this can't be it for opportunity as the surely. If this is the best we can do, man, this is not, you know, the, the, this is not a great, and I think that was like, it was a sudden realization of like, wow, I get it. I get to start over and I get to participate. I get there's a blank. Like what you said, this is a green field, you know, this a green field and a blank canvas and I can do whatever the hell I want to do here. Um, and there's not many other people doing it. So, you know, everyone knows everybody and I'm good at building relationships. So that was like my, it was all of these, but I couldn't define them in that moment. I talked to my friend who I thought might have a clue of like anything I was saying, you know, and you know, that was like the start of something. Great. You know, and that was you, you know, that space. I don't need to describe it. I've talked about it a million times, but it never gets old. Like, you know, when he was talking about the sale of that fedora alien pipe punk, like all of the that's I think what resonated to me the most about an image or a character having real stories attached to it and having a backstory and having this meaning and having, I don't know if you remember that was like a 30 minute monologue of this punk and like why he sold it for $4 million? I couldn't remember. It was just the most insane story. And I just said, "Wow, people have their identities attached to these things." That is really cool, you know?

Chikai:

I mean, I need to listen to that again. Like I, I think, I think that you got it more than I did at the time. I was like, well, I, at first I was like, there's something more going on here that are actually originally thought in terms of what just the, you know, the Beeple sale and everything else was, there's something a bit bigger. And so, uh, and then as we're looking into it and eventually I got it, but I think you got much quicker than I did. So I need to go back and do that. You'll see that that was saved. Is that, that the,

Kyle:

was literally gonna say, I bootleg recorded it. I'll I'll, I'll send it to you after

Chikai:

okay. All right. All

Kyle:

ha I have it saved in my Dropbox. Like, so in case I need it in case I need to like red pill, someone real quick, I could just like drop it in there. You know, I can drop it over to them.

Chikai:

Okay, cool. Definitely

Kyle:

"Listen to this man."

Chikai:

I do remember that. I mean, I, I think I, I can't even remember if I got in, because I think, uh, I think I got in, maybe I heard. Um, but I remember like how there's sometimes like on like on Clubhouse where it would you kit, you can't get it the capacity is filled up. You can't listen to literally side rooms that open up that you have to listen through or something. So I can't remember how I got in, but like, I, it was definitely a crowded room.

Kyle:

It was, it was in the first, what was really interesting is it wasn't web three related at all, but what actually gave Sriram is his platform on Clubhouse, he actually broke Clubhouse because he was the one who had Elon Musk on.

Chikai:

Yes. I know. I remember that.

Kyle:

I wasn't live in that. I was watching it on YouTube, someone like bootleg recording it and broadcasting it to YouTube live. Um, that was how I got into that.

Chikai:

I mean, he also like had like Mark Zuckerberg come on a one time. And so I definitely remember that. I mean, I was definitely in those particular, I think there's this whole wave of people who are NFTs that were on Clubhouse and all these were talking about it. I missed, I did not, I was not there for, I only came in during spaces. So there's this whole group of people, at least for NFTs specifically that came in through that. Uh, and then like, yeah, it's just interesting that there was that phase. I totally did not catch it for whatever reason. I was just, you know, in it on Twitter. And that's where I started my, my NFT sort of community attorney, but there was many who started on, on Clubhouse.

Kyle:

And I was on the tail end of Clubhouse. Like I was on the very tail end of that. So I wasn't, you know, I think really where it started from, from the people that I started gravitating towards on that, it kind of started around like November, October is really when that, that this community kind of started to form, um, on Clubhouse. Um, but I, so I came in like, you know, mid to late March and then spaces came out, I think, you know, around May or June. So it was like, kind of like, I guess maybe not the tail on him, I guess it was like right in the middle, you know, where, where I came in. Um, but it was, that's like, you know, that's where I met. Farokh, that's where I like, you know, met Jonah Blake. One of the other person I had that's, that's how I like knew of these people, because they're now, you know, and Farokh was like hosting all these rooms and Gary Vee was involved in some of them and I'm like, holy shit, man. Like. This is nuts. And I'm like, who is this Farokh guy? And like, you know, like why, like, why? Like, because I'm always super skeptical of people, like of influencers from the web two days. But like the more I saw what he was building, I said, holy shit, man, this dude is like putting people up. He's asking a lot of questions. He's a great host. You know, people want to come on. He's he's, he's, you know, giving a lot of alpha out, I just said, wow. Um, you know, so the, the, the transition from, from Clubhouse to Spaces was rough to say the least, because Clubhouse, at that time, they had had enough feedback to like mature their platform to where the audio was just crisp, you know? And you come to Twitter Spaces and they still haven't figured it out yet. , Chikai: Yeah. I never, I was too afraid to go on stage on Clubhouse. Like I never went on stage, uh, and like even Spaces, like I'm not going on stage. I'm never going to a Space and I'm not going to do it. And then my friend Omar, uh, got me on. And so I went on and then now I'm like hosting Spaces and wearing my own Spaces, which I never thought I would do, but it's been like, I never thought it would be as, as a great way to reach out and connect with people as it has become, because there's something about us talking together. Like there's something really special about us talking together that I think has been, it's just a nice, uh, intimate sort of real way to connect. That's not like in person in person. And so I think it's been great for a lot of people to be introduced, to meet and sort of talk. And so I've grown to really enjoy it, and it's definitely a part of my weekly routine is to do Spaces. I mean, that's on us. That's actually how I found out about photography in the first place. Cause Deeze was hosting those 12 to 14 hours spaces daily,

Chikai:

I am not like Deeze holy mackerel! I, I capped out at three or four hours. I'm like, I can't, I can't do more than that other stuff I need to do. So like, that's insane that those spaces running just so long.

Kyle:

It was, it was nuts. And I mean, now he wasn't super active, like, like he would, a lot of times like bring up different co-hosts and like, let them run the show and, you know, but he would, but he would still keep the room up. I mean, just, it was, that was, that's how I met Joey the Photographer. It's how I met all the time at Cath Simard. That's how I met Ben Strauss. how 'I met, you know, like Eric Reubens, it's how I met all these people is because this dude just, you know, held these legendary Spaces where he gave people the platform to like share their art. And oftentimes, you know, like whether he would buy it or not someone would buy it, you know, like from right there in the room. And I think one of the reasons why he gets a lot of the credit that he does is that. I'm not going to say he was the single most, like he played a very important role. You know, John Knopf uh, was arguably one of the largest and Dave Krugman were arguably some of the largest reasons why photography is relevant in the NFT space and, and encourage Cath, like sell her work for what it's worth. Um, but, but Deeze for like just making it, making it real, like, and giving some signal, you know, as a, as a collector like that, giving some signal and like buying this, you know, on a, on a weekly basis. So played a very important role and he won't admit it as much. He won't ever admit it because he's too humble. But like, that was like, honestly, one of the reasons why, you know, I found the photography community the way I did, you know, I wouldn't have found it outside of him, you know?

Chikai:

Yeah, it's interesting. I had found it in a very different way. Uh, you know, it's like, I, I, for a long time I have photographers say, please come and collect a photography work. And I

Kyle:

Yeah.

Chikai:

I don't know that much about photography. I don't feel comfortable with it. I had a lot of questions about it. And so I just never wanted to go into it. And they're like, you know, these incredible photographers, like Neil Brunel and Viery.

Kyle:

love Neal.

Chikai:

uh, and so. And then they are to convince me. And like eventually I finally bought one of, of, uh, of Neil's pieces, uh, which was an amazing piece, uh, is called "Labryinth". But then what really kicked it off for me because I was watching photography very closely. I wasn't buying anything, but. I was watching it very closely is like, what a while back, you know, Twin Flames dropped. And then that was a big thing, but it was pretty quiet for awhile. And then. Uh, Alejandro dropped "Carpoolers", uh, which was amazing. And then right after that happened and because it did so well, people said, oh, collections, photography collections. And then at that time then like, you know, panoramic portraits and then you know Drift dropped, like is "Where My Vans Go". And then like, you know, uh, just, uh, Chris Heinz, but Chris Hiawatha dropped a "Row Homes". And then, you know, Brendan North dropped like a painted portrait and all of these, just like, just like this amazing photography collection started dropping. And that's when I said, okay, I can play this year. And you know, it was in, and I started that's when I started my photography sort of journey and kept into it. And it sort of became a very dominant part of my collecting sort of activity. But I just saw that happening. As it was it happening, I was like you know, what is going on, it was just blowing up in front of my eyes. Uh, and so I created this site to track them all day. What questions are out there? So I built my own ranking system for photography collections and ran that for a long while to sort of say, here's all the top questions is the question I got a lot. Cause like I was looking up so intensely when people ask me like, Hey, what, how many should be new collection? So I had some idea, cause I just knew what every single one. And so I built this ranking thing to help me figure out, okay, what are out there? How many are are in the collection? How much are they selling for what types are they and so forth, uh, and just falling into volume and so forth. And eventually I shut that down because I did that for so long. And eventually I think I put a tweet. I have no idea if this had any effect on Open Sea but I said to them, if I can build this photography ranking site in a day, You could, why can't you do it? And then within a week or two weeks later, they set up the photography category, uh, on OpenSea, which I think it was a big deal, at least in the photography community to say it is its own sort of category. And then that, then they had the rankings worked, uh, on OpenSea. So eventually I shut mine down because I couldn't keep up with all the ones that are coming out, but it was just as I was just watching it happen I was just watching this explosion happen in real time. It's almost like a slow-mo. Oh my God, what is going on? And just saw them one after another. And then all of them are just like selling out within minutes. Uh, and then just the floor rising so quickly. It was just insane. It was just absolutely insane.

Kyle:

I love that, man. And I love that you mentioned the Row Homes. That is like one of the, I haven't, I, that, that is one of the single, and that was one of my most desired collections, like the own, at least. Like that is one of my favorite like when I saw that I'm like, that is so different. Like that it it's, it's, it's powerful, it's bold, like the colors just pop everywhere. Um, and it's just something aesthetically pleasing about, you know, we were talking about architecture a little earlier. There's something about it combines so many different things into one image. Um,

Chikai:

I learned how to, to bid on those auctions with that drop because I got zero because I went into buy it and it sold out within minutes, but I just waited for my one and then I would go to other ones, but things you'd do a bunch at same time. So, and he was selling somewhat beforehand, I don't know, I just completely messed up as like, I'm not going to make the same mistake again, but I got zero of Row Homes. I was there. I had like all 10 lineups. I don't want these, I'll do these in order, but I did not do it right. And there's this whole thing about bidding and like what happens. Anyways, I messed up, also, like I saw like a, Where My Vans Go and I saw one for sale, like, you know, it was like 1.8 eth, or something at the time. It's like, it's not the one I want, so I just want to wait until another one comes up and it was too late. It just, I should've just bought that one, uh, and just held on to it. But I didn't because like I thought, oh, it's not the one I wanted. And it likes the, so it was just kind of this weird dynamic that happened at the time.

Kyle:

Well, but it's also, it's, you're, you're very similar to me in the, in the same way. Like you buy what you like, you know, you buy the ones that resonate with you the most, but sometimes that, that behavior can get like, can like shoot you in the foot, um, where it's like, bam. But at the same time, it's not the one you wanted, you know, and that,

Chikai:

Yeah. I mean, it may have been the right decision from that perspective, but also like, I, I think I started to look at, um, some of these pieces, not as individual pieces, but as a collection, because I think Quantum Art did a great job of that. Like by doing the sort of art blocks sort of, uh, sort of model and saying you just get whatever he wants. That means you have to believe not just in one piece, you have to believe in the entire collection and the body of work that the artist has done, or just the thematically what's going on. And that's somewhat true about Summer Wagner's recent one with "A Parody of a Tangled Thread.

Kyle:

yeah.

Chikai:

There you, you, you ha you almost have to buy into the whole concept of what that is. And so in the end, it doesn't really matter which one you get, because they're all part of this incredible collection. And so you buy into the whole idea. There may be one or two you really want, but for me, like for that one, like as like I untangled, it, like I found all the ones that I fell in love with later on. And that's the sign of a great collection is that you may think you like this one, because maybe it's more aesthetically pleasing, whatever it is, or just some element you like about it. But then when you start digging and uncovering the layers you find out, oh, I love this one just as much, if not more. And that's what happened with Summer's. That's why I created the website dedicated to her thing. So.

Kyle:

That's you know, I, I, I tell you, man, I learn, I always learn something new every time. Like I have someone on, uh, cause I never, I never thought of it like that where it's like, because the collection is the story. The collection is the body. It's like there's, there is a, there is an overall theme that the artist is trying to communicate through the entire collection. It's not just one piece, I guess. I never really thought of it like that. I just looked at it. Like I just wanted the one that I want, know, I'm like,

Chikai:

that's true, but the thing is, there's two elements to that. One is, is that a great collection, each person will find a piece of that connect with there'll be different for each person. If it's all for the same person, I think, you know, but like a well done collection, you will find the piece that resonates with you or you connect with. Uh, it will be different for everybody. The second element is, is that for that whole collection, you know, you look at it as one whole, and you're lucky to have any piece of that sort of a collection because the whole thing works together. And when you reach that level, it's like just great art, period. And so you just want to be part of that collection because it's such an incredible collection. And so you're less about the one thing which is more PFP. Like you find the one PFP] you love, but it's like, you find the one piece that you love and it's different for everybody, but if the whole collection as a whole stands out, that you don't care, which one you get, you just want one of them. And that can be the more you get to that level. The more just like that they have done something that's truly magical, which I think is true as Summer Wagner's, uh, collection, uh, with the, with the Parody of a Tangled Thread.

Kyle:

I love that, you know, and I think, you know, it's a really interesting if I look back at my buying patterns when it comes to some of the photography, like, cause Joey, Joey, the Photographer recently did a drop on nitty gateway and there was one. And I remember that, you know, obviously there's the one of one, then there was an edition of 10 that was like, uh, you know, the 10 highest bidders. And then there was like a, you know, an addition of, I think 500, um, or something like that. And I remember buying the, in the 500 was actually, I ended up spending more on, you know, just because the market conditions were, uh, are, are not that great. And, you know, I know Joey has like struggled with being as you know, consistent in the community and like going back and forth. So there was a lot of reasons like why that, you know, unfortunately didn't go the way he had, he had anticipated, but I'd actually bought. That the, the, the editions piece, thinking like that was the only one I had a shot on, but I really, really wanted the, the, the, the bidding of, of the top 10, right. The middle one was the one I really wanted. I'm like, you know what? So I immediately bought the first one, cause I'm like, you know what, it's, this is just a chance to own Joey's piece at this price.

Chikai:

Yup.

Kyle:

even at $500. Like that was like, Joey's work is insane. And that was incredibly like, as a good deal for, for the amount of work he puts into it. But then I remember thinking, like I put like $120 bid on the, you know, um, I can't remember what it was called. It's been so long. Uh, I remember putting a bid on, I was like, you know what? I have, I can maybe spend like a hundred, $200 more, but I'm probably going to get bid out, I just wanted to do it for the provenance. Right. I just

Chikai:

Okay.

Kyle:

say I tried to participate, but I actually ended up winning ended up winning one of those pieces because there just wasn't a lot, like at 120 bucks, I'm like, this is criminally undervalued, you know? So I literally felt like I stole it from him, you know? Um, cause he put like a good, he put months and months and months of sleepless nights, uh, into that. And

Chikai:

Yeah.

Kyle:

but it's really interesting, you know, I, I tell that big, long story to almost I give your, give what you were talking about earlier a little bit of juice is that, you know, even, even if I didn't get that middle piece, just to own a piece of that collection, that whole collection that he was trying to tell the story of meant a great deal to me, it was like three parts of my life and the one of one I really want to own. It's just not realistic right now. Um, but at least I get to own a piece of that story that he's trying to tell, because me and him relate on a very similar note. Like I'm a recovered heroin addict. He's dealing with his own battles with that. And, you know, so like we, we connect on that really, really intimate level and I get to own a piece of that journey of his, you know, um, but just to give you just to kind of like, I guess in a weird way, say my intuition always knows better than, than the mind, you know, it's like the intuition usually knows what it wants more in the mind. Typically doesn't catch up till a couple months later or years down the road, however long that lesson takes.

Chikai:

Yeah. And that's all, they, the thing about vibes like that is like intuition. It is something that is more gut feel and that's what vibes is all about. Enemy. I heard like the course Deeze talks about all the time, like, oh, what does this vibes thing? Like, you know, whatever, it just touchy-feely. But the more I'm in the space of where like, yeah, it's a lot, there's a lot about vibes that, that you have to have the right vibe for it. And if it vibes and then there is, there is a signal there that you need to sort of pull through and sort of figure out. And sometimes that's all you go on. And sometimes it is what leads you, or tells you where to, to, to, to what path the travel. So it's, it's kind of this intuition thing, which I get you're totally right.

Kyle:

Yeah. And it, yeah. And it's just typically the mind doesn't understand the why behind the decision till, till the end result or at least near the end result is, is kind of rearing its head, you know? Um, and this is, it's a fascinating thing. It's yeah, I know. I know, I know the space gets a lot of shit for the, you know, what's the vibe in the community, but, but when you, when you, when you sit down to it, like this is the cultural layer of crypto, in my opinion, like, that's like, you got to buy what you like and you got to buy what resonates with you the most. And it may not be the piece that you like the most, but it may resonate with you in a way that you don't really know of yet. Or there's a reason why. You're led to it. Um, whether it's, uh, uh, experience that has happened or an experience that's yet to happen or whatever, the, whatever the case may be, this introduces a lot of, like you were saying deep thought, this is, I mean, it's the challenge of this space is having this deep level of thought, but also trying to keep up with how fast the shit moves. I mean, like it's, it's one it's, it's, it's the, it's the thing that keeps me up. It's what, it's almost like why I was really hoping, uh, one of the reasons why it won't be a popular opinion, but it's like, I, like, I want the bear market to last for a little bit, right? Cause just want to take a breath. like, I wanna dollar cost average in, I want to relax. I want to touch some grass. I want to learn some more. I want, you know, like that was just an insane, uh, bull market that we were just in. I mean, I, I didn't know what way was up. I didn't know. I didn't know how to like spend my time. I didn't know. I didn't know anything. I was just trying to survive, you

Chikai:

Yeah.

Kyle:

it was nuts. But

Chikai:

I think it's a good sort of like reset, uh, the bear market. I hope, I think in these situations, it's when the good people will stay and the people that are just in it for the money will leave. And I think that sort of, uh, sort of, uh, flushing of the system, I think is a good thing. Uh, and hopefully it is a time for, to take a breath and sort of just really think through like, why are you here and why are you in it? Uh, and so in the, hopefully the people who are here for the right reasons stay, and then we just get stronger on the, on the second, the next bull run.

Kyle:

Yeah. I mean, that's, you know, even just talking to my parents and talking to other people who understand traditional markets and they it's like that's, that's why bull and bear markets exist is to flush out, flush out the weak, you know, um, or people who are in it for the short term and the people it's, it's not necessarily the flush the weak out. It's more of just to show who's strong. You really? Depending on how you look at it.

Chikai:

Yeah. And also like all these scams and everything. Are also revealed, um, in these bear markets, because when things are always going up, it's easy to hide, uh, all the bad stuff's happening. But when it goes down, it's very hard to hide the bad stuff that's going on. And so that's why all these things are being sort of unveiled and these are sort of cratering and so forth because they actually weren't built on anything that's fundamentally sound. Uh, and so I think that that will hopefully just make the whole system better. Uh, is my hope.

Kyle:

yeah, man. Exactly. Well, I think I'm going to, well, I think we should wrap it up here, man. It's been an hour and a half. Um,

Chikai:

It's been great talking to you. I enjoy it. It's just been a, such a pleasure talking to you.

Kyle:

Yeah, man. This has been, this has been a treat. And so lastly, I want to give you, you and your resources, a little bit of a plug here, man. Where can people find you? Where can people find the Monolith Gallery? Where do you want people to go first.

Chikai:

Uh, you can find me at, @lifeofc, and, uh, Monolith Galleries is monolith.gallery, uh, is just as the website. And there's also, I guess, the Monolith gallery Twitter handle, which is @monolith gallery. Uh, so if I meet any one of those places, um, and, uh, yeah, thanks. I really appreciate you having the show. It's been a, it's been a great conversation, uh, in a truly, and it's been, it's been fun.

Kyle:

Yeah, man. No, this is exactly why I do it. And I mean, yeah, that means the world. And it's just, it's fun to like connect with all these different people with different backgrounds and hear the stories and find the find, find the, you know, find the common ground, find the different, find the different trains of thought. I mean, um, there's so much to be learned here. I mean, it's just. That was all ended with this man that was like the primary motive. Cause I didn't have a big bag to spend. So I said, my main goal here is to like, learn, like I'm just trying like that make money on along the way, sure. But like that was like, and I still try to check myself. That's the one thing I have to go back and reevaluate every now and again. Is it like, okay, did those two motives, you know, flip, um, you know, uh, or are they still the same and why are they the same? Or why are they different? You know?

Chikai:

Yeah. I mean, I think that with your talent, with, you know, just your history with podcasting and audio and stuff, I mean, I think this having this voice and having this regular show to talk to people, I think is an incredible service to the community, uh, in terms of you're taking your talent of what you do. And I think this is often a way people can understand stuff and hear stuff. And by how you ask questions and almost being sort of the voice of the people, like what do I not understand? And ask them those questions. I think that helps them understand because they have similar questions and similar things are struggling with that you're able to sort of highlight and ask different people that you interviewed. And so I think, I think it's a great service and a great value of the community. I think that I hope it succeeds and does well. And you know, I think it's, uh, I think it's very cool.

Kyle:

Thanks, man. That means the world.